Unlocking Impact: Access and Innovation in Early Learning

[00:00:00] Tracy: Hello and welcome to our first ECEC Conversations event. Attract, manage, retain: Winning strategies for ECEC talent. Joining me today, we've got Tash from our team at Xplor, and Megan from Talent Focus Recruitment. My name is Tracy. I'm the Manager of Education here at Xplor in my fifth year in this business.

And we are here to have a chat with Megan about the sector, what's currently going on, how we can be attracting this talent, how can we be retaining this talent, and also, the look ahead for us as a whole. Tash pass over to you.

[00:00:38] Tash: Excellent. So, my name is Tash. I have been with Xplor for almost four years now.

I'm a senior training specialist in the team. But before I joined the Xplor team I did work in early education right from trainee up to centre manager. So, I’ve gone through all of those roles and worked very closely with a recruitment team to obviously, be gaining new recruits in the sector. So, this is something that's really close to my heart and I'll hand over to Megan.

[00:01:08] Megan: So, I am Megan Gibb. So, I work for Talent Focus as the National Education Manager. I've been in the business for just over two years. I've worked across the education space predominantly within recruitment and HR, internally and across agency for over, I'd say 10 years.

I worked in this education sector specifically because I've got my early childhood degree and my HR degree, which I studied after I had my children. So, education's always been a passion of mine which is where it's led me to now run a national team across Australia across schools, OSHC and childcare.

[00:01:47] Tracy: No, that's great to hear. You mentioned that you studied education after you'd had your children. What has kept you personally connected to the sector across all these years? 'Cause 20 years is a long time.

[00:01:58] Megan: Don't say, don't tell them my age. I guess education has always been passion of mine. I come from a family of educators and after my, I guess my daughter was diagnosed with ADHD I took an extra interest in specialising across the education space and special education. I've worked on the floor as well as now within the recruitment side. So, I guess I understand both sides of, how I can relate to educators, but then also, relate to the stakeholders that recruit within this business as well.

[00:02:28] So, I love education. I love the kids, I love everything about it. And I just wanna keep being a part of what is gonna transition in the future as well.

[00:02:39] Tracy: Tash, I might ask you the same question actually. You've now, we've worked alongside each other for four years. What has kept you connected to education?

[00:02:47] Tash: Yeah, I've always had a passion for education and particularly the early years sector from a very young age growing up. I had parents who worked in the education field. My dad was a teacher. So, it was a huge passion. Just, I. Seeing his career progress and the role that he played in, educating children, working So, closely with them.

[00:03:08] He worked at an incredible school that had a lot of disadvantaged children, So, a huge passion from a really young age. I went down the teaching route, 'cause I thought that might be where I wanted my career to progress to. But I just found myself gravitating towards long daycare like that, that, formative zero to five years.

[00:03:28] So, for me, it was starting my certificate, working as a trainee, and then just absolutely falling in love with the role. And to this day, being able to still engage in that sector and have conversations that are So, meaningful just drives me that, that's my why. I love it So, much.

[00:03:47] Tracy: No that's, it's really good to hear. There's obviously a very strong passion here between us. It's why we're connected to education. It's why we are here. I know that the three of us particularly don't work directly in the sector anymore. I know we're very connected to it. Megan, what are you hearing right now are I guess, some of the more common reasons that people are leaving or transitioning out of the sector?

[00:04:07] Megan: I think specifically within the. Sector in particular is lack of support, lack of recognition the work-life balance has a lot to do with it. I think it's come into play a lot since Covid. And a lot of educators are still burning out, So, ratios are still quite low. Trying to find people within the sector has still been quite difficult. So, I think,

[00:04:31] the biggest part that, or what we've heard recently is specifically those three highlights, which is your lack of support, your recognition, your work life balance, and your burnout.

[00:04:44] Tracy: It's something that comes up in our line of work as well. We, being an education software company, we have a lot of people who come on board. They're dealing with staff retention, having people move in and out. Specifically in the last probably 18 months, we've had a lot of key people leave bigger businesses.

[00:04:59] And being able to manage those changes, it's becoming really critical to think, why is this sort of happening? I wouldn't say it's a mass exodus, but it's definitely a trend that we're starting to see more and more of. What from your time in recruitment, what really makes someone want to stay in the early childhood sector for the long haul, despite all these challenges that we've talked about?

[00:05:18] Megan: Supportive leadership. I think when you've and that stems from, when you're working for a big organisation or when you're working for a family owned organisation leadership and having that support is critical, for a lot of new educators coming into the sector or educators that have been in the sector for quite some time.

[00:05:35] Making sure that, their values align with the centres that they're actually in as well. Growth is a lot. So, setting up those career pathways for educators, So, especially new grads or ECTs coming into the sector that then wanna grow within their career as assistant directors or continue to develop themselves within that industry. I think, collaboration and definitely having that support and having a voice within the service itself definitely makes a big difference.

[00:06:05] Tracy: Tash, I know you've had some time in leadership and service directing in that space. What do you think were some things that you were able to manage really well in your experience to keep your talent and to keep the people who were really strong and well suited to their roles?

[00:06:20] Tash: Yeah, really great question. I think. For me, what I would say was a strength is just being able to hear the voice of my team and really have them as key members in decision making. So, leading together rather than, sitting a tier above them and giving a bit more of a dictatorship where it's we have to do this, we have to do that.

[00:06:43] Giving them the autonomy and the voice to really input into, okay, how does our service progress? Where are we at? Where do we wanna go? What's our vision? Something there that I picked up on quite quickly when I started being a centre manager, is that you might have a vision when you start in that role and it's going to progress and it's gonna change. And what that looks like maybe in three years is really different. And being able to pivot, being able to keep your team engaged So, that they can pivot with you. That was a really big one for me personally. So, just team engagement, team involvement, team voice and just making sure that we have those right people that are still understanding our vision. It's very clear where we are going and making sure that we're all going together. And if we're not that's completely okay as well. Supporting them in that decision to change if they'd like.

[00:07:37] Tracy: That's a really fair call. We've talked a lot about workload, and we know that burnout is something that this sector really struggles with. Besides our pay and our workload what else do you both think keeps educators feeling valued and supported in a workplace?

[00:07:50] Megan: I think exactly what Tash just said, like being heard, being included as an educator. Recognition, like recognition and appreciation is huge. I think within this sector, people wanna know that they're being recognised, they're doing a good job.

[00:08:05] The children are the number one focus. And sometimes, when everything is focused on the children, sometimes the educators are, forgotten about of how good a job they actually do within this sector. Being there emotionally support them as a leader and, putting in wellbeing incentives for them.

[00:08:21] Also, giving them that sort of trust, autonomy and that clear communication of what t said, where the centre's going, how they can get involved in it. And letting them have a voice and being heard. Because then they really feel a part of that centre, a part of that culture. And it gives them the extra bounce in their step to be able to have those difficult conversations with the parents and being really a part of that team.

[00:08:45] Tash: I think adding to that as well. Being very intentional with people's time. This sector is So, time poor and we constantly hear that they don't have enough time in the day to get all the things done that they need to. Being really intentional with people's time. So, if we are having a staff meeting, we are really intentional on what that staff meeting is. Having meeting minutes maybe put to the team ahead of time, having them contribute to it as well. If we're having conversations, they're really intentional. We're not stretching people's time and they're not getting value from it.

[00:09:14] Because that contributes to burnout as well, doesn't it? We're, we're absorbing time that could be placed elsewhere.

[00:09:22] Tracy: That's a really good call out as well. Leads to the next thing that I wanna talk about is. We talk about workplace culture, and this is outside of the education sector, about it being something really important that workplaces need to develop, that can attract great talent.

[00:09:35] Workplace culture is something that we also, come into contact with each and every day. Something that we wanna be a part of. What do you think services could be doing? Not So, much to improve their culture, but to build one internally that is when put out to others, becomes something that's really attractive to them.

[00:09:53] Megan: Yeah, I think having the same sort of vision and purpose. Again, having that supportive, I guess leadership team is really important. Having fun, bringing the joyful and playfulness into the services. Everyone wants to go to work to have a bit of fun. You're working around kids every day creating those activities and you don't wanna be and not have to go into work and have that fun and have that joyful, have that playfulness that you know you really need within those services. I think a great culture embraces feedback out of fear as well. So, services to come with fresh ideas, reflect on their practices and learn from their mistakes.

[00:10:28] And I guess be able to make their service better to then be able to keep growing and blossoming into the culture that they want within those particular services. Because every service is different and every culture is different.

[00:10:43] Tash: Megan you're So, right in, you, you've just touched on something that's such a passion for me as well, which is reflective practices.

[00:10:50] I think that the way that services look at, okay we have to reflect, we have to be reflective. What is reflection and what do we get out of it? Being really clear on that as well. When we're sitting down and we're reflecting on our practices, we wanna get something from that. Have we done something well, do we need to pivot?

[00:11:08] Have we not met the mark here or there? We're not doing it to just tick off, a checklist of yeah, we are, we're meeting all the requirements. No, we're being really intentional. So, it comes back to that intention, doesn't it?

[00:11:20] Megan: A hundred percent.

[00:11:24] Tracy: And we've talked about what we would like to see done really well by services. I imagine in your role you work a lot with services who are doing retention really well. What have you seen as some tangible examples of things that they're doing? In order to improve retention or improve their recruitment?

[00:11:39] Megan: I think creating real positive career pathways. I find that that's really important with a lot of services and what they're doing at the moment. Also, leading with their people and not just leading with their policies. So, a lot of people come in and as writing all the policies and writing all the procedures, but, yes, it's essential, but they also, need to lead by example as well. So, you've got communication, transparency, that consistency that goes on with those services. I find that really holds a lot of people with retention. I'd say daily recognition as well. So, making sure that, you are recognising your workers on a daily basis and not just once a month because they need to feel valued, and as we've said before, have a voice. And I think that's what a lot of services are doing to keep their staff and being able to retain their staff at the moment. 'Cause and that work-life balance, like having that flexibility where you've got, moms coming into the sector that are working part-time and, having that flexibility for them to be able to have that family work life balance as well.

[00:12:43] Tracy: I guess what, what do you wish services would try and do more of or less of in this journey? We are talking about Best Practice, Gold Star Standard here. I'm sure we also, see the other end. What sort of things should we be a little bit mindful of when we're looking at recruitment?

[00:12:57] Megan: I think if you look at advertising, for example stop just advertising tasks, advertise your services.

[00:13:04] What is the, what makes your service different? Tell us why. We should work within your service or your sector and what makes you great. Instead of just saying, ratios and just listing things of cleaning duties and what an educator should do. Actually, really thrive on what your service brings as a culture.

[00:13:24] Move away from just, filling those ratios when you've hired someone. It's really important to have a proper onboarding, proper buddy systems and welcome processes. Like they want to actually feel like they're being inducted properly. 'Cause there's a lot of people that leave. I guess now, which takes us back to where we were is because they haven't been onboarded properly, they haven't felt that support and they've been told this is what's gonna happen, and they just don't see that follow through.

[00:13:49] It's really important to make sure that people are onboarded properly and they're actually welcomed into the service, I guess at the start. And avoid that micromanagement. I think, it's good when you're micromanaging or budding people as they're coming into the sector, but if you've got an experienced ECT, they definitely don't need someone looking over their shoulder.

[00:14:09] They wanna make a difference within the service. They want to lead with their what they're bringing to the table, their values, and making sure that it all aligns together,

[00:14:19] Tracy: Tash, from your time in the sector it's So, varied as well. What do you wish that potentially you as an employer or businesses that you're working for, what do you wish that was done differently or changed or you'd like to see more or less of in the future?

[00:14:33] Tash: Yeah, I think that it's really key to shout out that there, there's no one right way. And again, if we're going back to that reflective practice on, okay, if we do lose someone from our service quite quickly after recruitment, what could we do to improve, the pool of people, the applicants that we're getting. How can we be a bit more specific to make sure that they're fitting into our environment? For me, it was ever changing again. Our whole service philosophy just evolved constantly. So, the people that you had in your team didn't necessarily come with you on that journey. And just being able to support that and make, make sure that they land in the right places is perfect. But again, no, no one right way. I think reflective practices, making sure that we're constantly changing and we're communicating that change out to the team So, we're all on the same journey, same path together.

[00:15:27] What would I change? It's the communication, isn't it? Again, you're a leader in your team, So, working on the ground with them rather than above them. So, make sure they're coming on that journey with you and you're leading them not managing, micromanaging and just clear communication on what the expectations are, but really empowering them to run their rooms, do their role, knowing that you've recruited the right people from the get go. I hope that we have more of that in the future, and that was definitely something that I learned through my journey as a manager.

[00:16:00] Tracy: You both touched on onboarding and change management. What do we think? I guess collectively change comes up a lot for Tash and I in our current role, we're dealing with a lot of customers who we're throwing a lot of new processes on them, potentially a lot of new tools. How can we go about fixing I guess the attitude towards change in our sector?

[00:16:19] We see a lot of reticence towards that. In our roles. Megan, what can we be doing to help our businesses and our people manage change better?

[00:16:28] Megan: I think it's exactly similar to what Tasha said, education, communication involving people early. So, getting them involved to say, okay, this is what we are looking at doing. Do you wanna have a voice? Do you wanna have an input? Is there anything that I. You feel that we could implement to make the services better instead of involving them after the process. I think if you're involving them earlier in the process, they feel a part of it. And I find people will then go on that journey with you rather than being more receptive towards saying, Nope, I don't like these changes.

[00:16:59] You didn't talk to me about it. I don't wanna, I'm just leaving the organisation. I think that plays a big part particularly within this sector.

[00:17:09] Tash: Do you have some insights to further dive deeper into that? What do you think services could set up or establish to be gaining that insight, that feedback when their team maybe is feeling like they're left out of the loop? And not have it be like, we've got a survey box that doesn't get actioned because, we've done it to say that we've done it. Do you have some examples of things that service leaders maybe could be implementing to really hear that feedback and make it a safe environment for their team to share?

[00:17:39] Megan: Yeah, I think, it's really good for area managers when they go out to visit their services and sit down with their teams. Like I know, especially within the OSHC sector or the long daycare sectors a lot of people now are bringing their teams together on a collaboration day or having a lunch where they bring all of their leaders together to have a voice and have their say, and I think that works really well.

[00:18:01] Because they're not sitting there ticking that survey box and they're like, this is what, we are thinking about implementing. So, bringing everyone together, whether it's on like a Zoom call, if you know it's statewide or whether they're in the same state on the Gold Coast or Queensland, wherever it might be, and just bringing those leaders together to have those conversations. 'Cause I feel when you are having, people to be able to listen and support it's going to be able to lay out those changes a lot better.

[00:18:29] Tash: I love that So, much, 'cause I think I, I think that's the biggest issue, isn't it? That people just get to a point where it, they haven't given feedback for So, long and they haven't voiced that they're not on board with the changes that are coming in and maybe haven't provided centre managers the opportunity to make a change 'cause they don't know that the issue's there. So, creating that safe environment, creating a practice that's very open to feedback is key.

[00:18:57] Megan: Yeah. Yeah, definitely works better than a tick box.

[00:19:02] Tracy: I feel like there's a lot of things that we try to fit into our time in the education sector.

[00:19:07] Time is obviously such a valuable resource that there's a lot of tick bucket exercises that we can be doing. You've both just described some practices that really show us how groups and leadership can be thriving. How do leaders help set that tone shift from surviving to thriving in their businesses?

[00:19:27] Megan: Again, I think it's leading by example. Everybody as a leader, it's, you don't want someone sitting there going, this is the way that it should be. This is the way and pointing the fingers and it, it becomes quite passive, instead of collaborative. So, leaders definitely need to lead by example, and I think that's gonna be the biggest shift and change.

[00:19:48] Tash: I definitely I agree with you there as well. I also, think it, it comes down to the basics of if you introduce something, you need to follow through with it from a leader's perspective. You need to buy that trust with your team. Especially, feedback comes, firstly from a place of mistrust where they don't quite trust the process. There's something not quite aligning for them. If they're providing you feedback and you are not recognising it, actioning it, you're not following the policy that you've said that you're gonna do with this feedback, then you're not gonna consistently keep receiving it. So, whatever you do implement as well, I think consistency is key and just making sure that you're actioning as well and acknowledging with the team. Amanda's put something in the Q & A as well, which isn't a question, but I think it really resonates with what we're talking about at the moment. She's acknowledging that change is constant, especially in the sector, which absolutely it is.

[00:20:41] And there's not a lot of time to manage these changes as well, which is 100% correct. Time is not on your side in the ECEC sector at all. Yeah. So, whatever you adopt needs to be something that you can invest the time in, whether it's a small amount of time or you can invest a larger amount, but it's just gotta be consistent because you're gonna put the work in at the start to format. Format. There we go. I'm like, that was not the right way, but you're gonna format whatever it is, and then once the process works, it's gonna be easier. It's that establishment that takes the time, and unfortunately, you're already probably lacking time to be able to invest in it, but once you've got it flowing through, it's gonna save you time, you're gonna retain your team, you're gonna have a much better environment. So, whatever it is that works, it's just finding that, and I guess conversations with your team is gonna allude to what they're gonna be the most receptive to as well. So, again, looping back, involving them, talking to them, being really open and honest.

[00:21:41] And then, yeah, implementing.

[00:21:44] Megan: Checking in throughout the process I think is really important too. So, checking in consistently to make sure that it's actually being implemented properly and it's thriving.

[00:21:53] Tracy: I think it's also, okay to say that things don't work. Yeah. Like we talk a lot about change and things moving in the right direction. Sometimes if we're checking in and we are struggling and it's not working, it's okay to pivot and it's okay to say that collectively this didn't succeed. We can move back to the old way. We can try something new. We're all human here and we're all looking to better ourselves and better the experience for our children and our families. Things not working out is also, equally a change.

[00:22:21] Tash: That's So, correct as well, I think. In the ECEC sector, everybody's really frightened to fail. Like they, they put this word failure out there. And that's why change management is really hard. They don't wanna change because if something works, then why would we change?

[00:22:37] But the sector's ever evolving. Change is consistent. It has to happen. And it's okay for things to not work. That's where your reflective practices come in to be like, okay, what could we do to improve this next time? Does it completely not work? Could we pivot and change just a small segment of it? It's a really exciting field to work in. We shouldn't be scared to not, it's not failure, it's just we haven't been successful yet, So, we're gonna keep trying. And bring your families on that journey as well. I know we're talking about educators. There's a whole community that can be involved in that. Don't be scared to involve a community and if something's not successful, ask for feedback and pivot.

[00:23:16] Tracy: It's a really good call out. I think we've focused a lot on what's happening with like the digital and software space, primarily Tash and I with families. Megan, do you see a role for technology in making educators lives easier, and how does that sort of affect recruitment and what you're trying to do?

[00:23:31] Megan: Oh, definitely. Technology is our next phase of recruitment. It's next phase of whatever sector we're in. I think. It definitely helps. I feel, makes educators jobs a lot easier. They're able to focus a lot more on the children rather than just sitting there being part up with administration work. And that works across, the education sector as a whole. It also, helps us as recruiters because we are there to actually sit down, work out with educators, what they're looking for with their next role, and making sure that we are gonna align them with the right centre as well. Instead of sitting there doing a lot of paperwork that we get as recruiters, as well.

[00:24:05] I heard this phase the other day, we don't want admin, we want thriving people. So, I guess when we are sitting there wanting to actually listen and be the leaders and make change it comes with that technology and making it a lot easier for our educators to focus more where it needs to be rather than on the administration side.

[00:24:24] Tracy: Okay. That's So, fair. I was gonna say, Tash, the education sector technology, we're across it. What are you excited about though?

[00:24:33] Tash: I think I'm most excited for where we're at with technology now but where we'll be in six months where things can be a bit more automated for the teams. There's gonna be So, many resources at their fingertips that are just gonna elevate their experience when it comes to documentation, but also, the what ifs and the where to next. Especially if we're talking about an educator that is So, burnt out and really just running low. How are we still keeping consistency for the children? How are we still working with them to make sure that they're meeting everything that they require?

[00:25:06] I'm excited for that kind of technology to be introduced. A lot of people I think this is quite topical in that a lot of people are like it's gonna take over and it's gonna kill creativity. And I actually think the opposite. I think it's gonna elevate creativity 'cause it's gonna give us a baseline for us to jump off from.

[00:25:22] And I think creativity is collaboration in my opinion. The best creative people collaborate with others rather than do solo. So, I think technology is evolving in a way that's gonna be our collaborator, and then we're just gonna skyrocket from there. So, I'm excited.

[00:25:39] Tracy: I couldn't agree more. I think we, we talked about burnout and people being really time poor in this space. Technology is a great opportunity to use as a springboard. It does. I'm like thinking about the way that we use it now every day. It gives you great frameworks. It gives you great stepping stones to start with, and especially if you are feeling tired and you are feeling, lacking energy really in your space.

[00:26:00] I think it's a great way to springboard and be like, great, someone's done the first thought. How do I springboard 3, 4, 5 steps down the road there?

[00:26:10] Tash: I think it could also, bring that inspiration back, couldn't it? Just a little bit a, a creative idea. A seed planted with an educator can really turn that whole thing around of, I'm feeling uninspired, I'm feeling really burnt out to, oh my gosh, I have this incredible idea and I wanna run with this.

[00:26:28] And it can bring that inspiration back, that joy, that love, because anyone that works in the ECEC sector, does it for love. We love children. We love education. So, you know, when you're creative and you've got these ideas, it really can just take that to turn everything around for you as well.

[00:26:44] Tracy: Absolutely. Megan, we did chat a little bit earlier in the week, and you mentioned that you went back to study education and balancing that with, I imagine your family life and being an adult and all the pressures of real life. Where do you think the role and further education is for the education sector?

[00:27:01] Is it necessity? Is it something that you have to have? What can we be doing to support our educators who are choosing that path?

[00:27:07] Megan: As in going further with their education? Yep. I definitely think there's a few changes being made recently. I think the biggest thing is, I guess with universities and TAFEs and actually deep diving into a little bit more when it comes to safeguarding child protection the early years learning framework and really understanding those qualifications.

[00:27:29] I guess that's an exciting thing for me with education moving forward is that's really pivoted and becoming a like really pivotal element to this space. And I think that's really exciting because I feel, sometimes there's been things happened in the past where we are not qualified or we're not supported and we're burning out and covid has hit and all these sort of things.

[00:27:49] There's definitely been things put in place now to support educators with their qualifications, with their extra studies which I think is gonna make a big shift and change within the education space and being able to support the children. Really understanding what those governing bodies are and that child safety, child protection and I guess that excites me a little bit .Moving forward within the education space to know that, our little ones are now going getting more of that sort of attention rather than it just being about the, I guess the organisations themselves.

[00:28:22] Tracy: I think there's been a real pivot, especially in recent years and post covid with a lot of families spending a lot more time with their children in those first formative years. That move from, it's just babysitting. They're just with an adult all day to, there's some really key learning happening here, and this development is really important for the rest of their lives. And being able to see that happen in the sector and the professionalism that we're seeing from our educators, from our kindergarten teachers, from our room leaders.

[00:28:49] It's been really special for us to see at Xplor. So, I can only imagine what you're seeing in the recruitment side. Tash, I know your background with study. How did you come to the decision on what to further your study in or not? What was that sort of process like for you?

[00:29:04] Tash: Yeah, study was an interesting one for me. I had doubled in bachelor degrees and certificates and it was just all about for me, it wasn't necessarily about the end goal of this is the qualification that I'll have, but it's more what are you learning while you're studying? What am I taking on? What am I getting from this and how can I embed that into the role that I have or the future role that I want? Like, how is this improving me?

[00:29:30] So, I have my cert three diploma, advanced diploma, and then I started my Bachelor of Education and then ceased that because I. I didn't want the teaching route. I didn't want to be educated on how to teach or educate children. I more wanted to specialise in, okay, how will we supporting development?

[00:29:53] And So, then my study pivoted to more support that. How did I make that decision? I think for me, I really sat down, and I thought about what's important for me. What's my philosophy personally? What do I believe? What do I wanna contribute to this sector? And how do I get all of that? To be able to deliver in the role that I have.

[00:30:14] So, that's how I studied. Obviously, being part of the sector there, there are requirements. You have to have a cert three. You progress to diploma if you're looking to be a room leader, educational leader, et cetera. We do have minimum requirements and that's what I thought of it as a minimum requirement.

[00:30:32] But I definitely think there are avenues to further your knowledge and understanding in study pathways that don't necessarily get you a role., Like when they say this could get you this role. It's more just yeah, upskilling your knowledge So, that you can be the very best that you can be for the children, for your team, for the sector that you're working in.

[00:30:55] Tracy: No, absolutely. I think there's So, many ways into this sector. It's not cut and dry, it's not one path for everyone. Megan, you touched on it before, with family life balance, people returning after maternity or parental leave it's incredible the amount of people that we come in contact with. I don't think I've ever met anyone who has the same two paths. It, it is really special and something to be celebrated here as well. We've talked a lot about educators who may feel burnt out or feeling at their lowest with their creativity points. What are, what advice would you give those educators? Tasha, Megan, who wants dance first?

[00:31:31] Megan: I think if, when I've had educators come to me in the past and they're like, I'm just burnt out. I don't wanna do this position anymore. I. Sit down and I listen to them and to get an understanding as to why they're actually feeling that way. I think everybody has their own voice, their own opinions, and there's So, many different individual people of why they might be burning out.

[00:31:51] It could be like a personal thing, or it could be a centre thing. I think it's just understanding exactly why they feel that way, why they're feeling that they wanna get out of the sector. If it is, because they've unfortunately had a bad experience within a particular centre, just coaching them through that to say that I'm sorry that you've had this experience, but the whole sector is not like that.

[00:32:12] So, how can we coach and mentor you to be able to continue with your journey within this sector because you went into it with a passion. We don't want you to lose that and lose another educator within this industry. We want to say, let's find a service that is gonna align with your missions and your values and, hopefully make your next journey a little bit of a more better one and continue with that. It's really understanding and hearing them, and I guess coaching them through what's actually happened. I guess from my side in recruitment, I deal with a lot of clients or services as well where we've had educators come to me and say, I am not feeling supported.

[00:32:50] And we've had the opportunity to be able to go back to those clients to say, look, this is what's happening. This is what we feel could potentially work moving forward. And it's great that we get to have those relationships from both sides. 'Cause I guess we can try and bridge the gap to assist not just our clients, but our educators to be better in this sector and continue to grow with each other. To keep this sector, fun and playful and, everything that we've just spoken about just recently, I.

[00:33:17] Tash: 100%. I agree with absolutely everything you just said. One thing that, that popped into mind when you were speaking as well is investing in professional development for our teams to make sure, again, that career path is really paved for them. Where do you wanna go? And we're investing in you So, that you can achieve those future goals and really stay engaged with the sector and our role.

[00:33:38] I think from a centre man, when I was centre manager, I'm just speaking purely from my experience, centre managers experience huge burnout as well. Because you are managing a team. You're looking after a team. You're trying to be the best leader that you can, but you're also, trying to do everything else that you need to do in the role. So, I think that the best advice that I would like to give my past self is you need to fill your bucket first and make sure that you are pouring from a full bucket to other people.

[00:34:05] Don't, don't think just because you are burnt out and everyone's burnt out, that this is the standard. You need to set the standard as a leader, that we invest in ourselves and make sure that our bucket's full. And then that clear communication with your team. So, opening that opportunity for them to come to you in a safe environment and discuss with you that, maybe they're not happy. Maybe there's things that aren't quite aligning, maybe their vision is changing and. Not quite where yours is at and supporting them to stay in the sector but find that right opportunity that's gonna meet what they require as well. Yeah.

[00:34:40] Tracy: Yeah, absolutely. I'm just gonna call out we do have the Q & A section open today, if anyone's got any questions for anyone on the panel today, myself and Tash, or Megan from a recruitment standpoint.

[00:34:50] Megan, I do have a question for you. And I'm, I am hoping it's a fun one. We've talked a lot about the standard for recruitment. What are some of the most creative ways or strategies that you've seen employers try and attract great talent, some real out-of-pocket stuff. If you've got any examples.

[00:35:05] Megan: There's been a lot lately. I think what a lot of people are doing is sign on bonuses trying to compete. I guess we've had the new ECEC grant that's come up, So, a lot of people have, had that as an extra bonus to get people on board. I think the biggest thing though, when you are wanting to attract is that work-life balance. Again, saying about your service, the sign-on bonuses are great, but the sign-on bonuses aren't gonna keep your employees there if the culture's not what they're looking for, if they haven't been matched to the right position, and you're not just filling that position to fill the ratios.

[00:35:41] There's gotta be a lot of things that you've gotta look at from a bigger perspective. So, having those sign-on bonuses are great, having those I think a lot of people are doing like wellbeing, which is amazing. So, they've got a lot of rewards and recognition and services are actually looking and listening to what is out there and what educators are looking for right now. So, there are a lot of organisations that are making a difference and are doing it right and there's still some that unfortunately are lacking behind. But sometimes you don't always have the funds behind you like a big organisation to the family-owned organisations. So, I think really making sure that you are selling your service to make sure that those educators are wanting to come in for the right reasons, not just, let's fill a seat.

[00:36:28] Tracy: Fair enough. That's a tricky one. I've heard a lot of the strategies that a lot of our services have in place when they attract families. Yeah. Using some of those when we attract their talent as well. So, if we're thinking centre tours. If we are talking like multiple points of contact rather than one interview, whether it be phone or online like we are doing now, making sure you're taking your potentially new talent on that same journey.

[00:36:50] You're presenting that service in the same way. It sounds like that is starting to be the standard and that shift that we're seeing now. We're not looking for spots to being filled. We're looking for people to really help us elevate and move in that direction.

[00:37:02] Megan: Yeah, even when I talk to some of the educators, I'll be like, going into the service. You are gonna be the one that's gonna be able to get the feel for it. I can sit here and tell you everything about the service till the cows come home. But as an educator you get a sense of a feel when you walk into that floor. You can meet the, you other team members that you know are your potentials and you can sit there and have a conversation with the centre director. Definitely getting on that floor and going out to meet with them face to face is really important as well.

[00:37:29] Tracy: It's a good measure of compatibility as well. On paper, some two people may have the same qualifications, the same experience, but if they go into the service two different fields, in one of my very early career journeys, I was asked as part of the recruitment process to do a test lesson.

[00:37:45] I had no idea about the children, what their sort of backgrounds were, what point we're at. But for an hour, that was the interview. It was to teach a lesson, to have that observed. Gave me a really great feel for who I was gonna be working with and what they expected. But we're talking like probably seven or eight years ago now. That was not a sector standard then. And very different to what I was used to.

[00:38:06] Tash: Megan, do you have some advice? This is something from my time with recruiting. I will ask who I'm interviewing if they have any questions and they will come back with no, and I had always found they'll have questions after but maybe they're So, overwhelmed in the interview.

[00:38:24] Do you have any suggestions on questions that maybe they might prep that are really pivotal that'll give them an insight into the role? To help them with a bit more clarity into, is this centre for me? Is it not? Is there anything that they maybe should be thinking about asking when that comes up?

[00:38:43] Megan: I think this changes for each position that you are recruiting for. I. I won't go into every single one, but if you go into a centre director role, I guess the most important one is asking why that centre director has left previously. Tell me a little bit about your culture. Tell me about the leaders that have been here previously. Who do I report to?

[00:39:04] There's definitely a list of questions that I think are really important when you are moving into a leadership role. Where you are wanting to understand as to what the position is that you're going into, what your expectations are and how they see the service moving forward as a centre director to make sure that your vision actually aligns with theirs.

[00:39:26] If they've said, okay, this is the direction we wanna see the centre heading, but you've got a different direction, is that really going to be the service that you know is gonna fit with you. 'cause at the end of the day, you're wanting to make sure you're walking into a service that you are staying at long term. If you're an educator, I think the biggest thing is asking about your team culture. Tell me about your team. Tell me about your flexibility, your work life balance. Tell me about your children. Like with your children that are in your toddler room. What are they like? What can I do to help them thrive as an educator?

[00:39:58] Is there any advice that you can give me? To make them be able to hit their milestones that I can do as an educator moving into this room. So, it's just asking those little things that's not only gonna make you successful, but it's gonna align with the vision of the centre as well.

[00:40:16] Tash: I love this. A follow up to that. Historically, we've seen a lot of roles require you to come in to do a lesson plan. Maybe you come in and do a half day on the floor just to see how you might fit into that room with that person. What's your stance on educators doing a little bit of a trial, do you think that's a benefit or is it not necessarily? What's your thoughts?

[00:40:42] Megan: A hundred percent think it's a benefit. Getting and that's not just within the long daycare space that's even walking into a school going into do a trial. It really gives you a feel of the children. Exactly what I just said. The children, the centre the centre managers. Whether it's a chaotic centre or whether it's a calm centre, or whether it's a Montessori, or whether it's, whatever it might be, it actually gives you a sense of, okay, do I really see myself fitting into this service? I definitely think that having a trial or lesson plans, whatever it might be, a hundred percent makes all of a difference.

[00:41:16] Tracy: It's a really good call out. There's no better lesson than experience, right? And having that really early in the piece is really helpful. Yeah. Megan, from your role in the recruitment space, what are some red flags that you see either from employees or employees looking? What sort of dings your bell at this doesn't really sound right, or this might not be the best fit.

[00:41:36] Megan: There's a lot I guess this morning. I'll give you an example of this morning. I had a teacher who we have moved interviews around to be going into a service who then texted this morning to say we'd changed the interview about three times. And then she turned around and said, sorry, this service isn't for me.

[00:41:55] It's too far. Even though we'd had those conversations multiple times and then just completely ghosted and withdrew. So, I think ghosting and I think you would've seen this on my LinkedIn posts as well, is a big thing at the moment where there's So, many options for educators. They aren't turning up to interviews, you are being ghosted.

[00:42:13] But even if you have the most strongest relationship, talking to them before those interviews, unfortunately, there's So, many options out there for them, that still continues. But again, it's saying why you want them to come and work for you. Why is your service different for them to actually get to that interview. I think to start with ticking all those boxes is really important. But there, there's So, many different things that is happening within that space at the moment. I could sit here and talk about it for hours.

[00:42:42] Tracy: I was gonna say, we have a few recruiters on our side and some of the problems that we're facing are much the same, and it is around lack of communication, lack of follow up.

[00:42:52] I think it's very easy to think that you're a number on a lot of people's database, like you're not a person. But yeah, Megan, you're putting time into this process. We have services putting in their time and their efforts as well. Goes a long way to send an email. We'll send a message to say, this is where I'm at. Things have changed. No one's holding it against you. Yeah. Communication's key for a lot of this, isn't it?

[00:43:12] Megan: Educators are the same too though. They feel, I guess I've read a lot lately where educators have applied for a role with a centre and they haven't received any sort of feedback or back as well.

[00:43:23] So, I think it works both ways from, our perspective as recruiters, but also, as educators as well. We need to have that transparency across the board with both. Because if we can have that transparency, hopefully it will close that gap a little bit more. And that's not just not from a, us as an agency recruiter, that's definitely from a centre service.

[00:43:41] And sometimes even just sending that email, having that phone call, giving that little bit of sense of guidance goes a long way.

[00:43:50] Tash: Megan you've mentioned that there, there's obviously a large pool of applicants that might be applying to positions that are advertised. So, a large pool that, recruiters can be going through.

[00:44:01] How do you decipher who makes the short list? When? When a role is applied to what stands out in a resume that makes you think, yes, I think you're a key person that might really fit into this role. And I guess how can we give that advice to people listening in around what you should be including in your resume to really stand out, but make sure that you are landing in the right role.

[00:44:27] Megan: Yeah, I think tailoring your cv to the role you're applying for. So, not putting, I'm looking for a customer service role when you are applying for an educator position is a really important one. We see this a lot. Making sure that you've got your most recent experience at the top. A lot of people put it down the bottom So, when people are sifting through CVs at a high rate, you're not gonna look down the bottom.

[00:44:47] You're always gonna see, okay, what's your most current employer or what have you most recently done, especially within the education space. Making sure that their qualifications, So, you've got your cert three, you've got your bachelor, you are actually tailoring your CV specifically to that job that you are applying for.

[00:45:04] With us, we do pick up the phone, So, sometimes the CV doesn't reflect, but we know that they could potentially be qualified for this position. But we're not gonna put them forward for a centre that's not gonna match what they're looking for either. There's definitely different points that you have to go through.

[00:45:19] And again we spend So, much time and effort in doing this and recruiting for these positions to make sure we are matching the right people. We then need to make sure that we're retaining them from the other side. But yeah, the biggest points is tailor your CV specific to that role. And if you've got on Seek, you've gotta have this qualification, you've gotta have this experience, tailor it specifically to that, and put a little bit of a cover letter.

[00:45:46] Tash: I love this. So, really, yeah, being intentional is what we're saying. Be really intentional about the role that you're wanting to get. I love this. Yeah. I think in the market as we are right now, people are doing a lot of that cut and paste and I'm applying to 50 roles and I'm not tailoring.

[00:46:01] So, yeah, when we're saying they might not be hearing back, which shouldn't be the case. I'm a huge advocate for, we should be communicating either way. But it might just be that you haven't catered your CV to match the role that you've applied to. You've missed something off that they're specifically requiring.

[00:46:17] So, that's a really great insight there.

[00:46:21] Tracy: I know we spoke a little earlier in Megan about being able to, like looking at recruitment spend and where you're gonna be putting in your time and effort. What sort of tips would you have for employees who are looking to improve their strategy when it comes to recruitment?

[00:46:34] Megan: I think the biggest thing is if you are advertising a role three or four times, people are gonna say, why are you advertising that role three or four times? A lot of people come to, agencies like ours because they've tried every avenue that they know how. We are speaking to educators on a daily basis.

[00:46:51] We are speaking to clients, centres on a daily basis, So, we know who's looking to move, who's available, at the moment, who's looking for ECT roles? What sort of services they're looking for? When you're investing, money on an agency perspective, we are investing a lot of time and money from our side to make sure that we're gonna find the right educators and matching them, tailored specifically to the organisations that we're working for who are paying those fees.

[00:47:18] If they're advertising on Seek and they're advertising they're closing rooms because they're losing ratios and they're not able to find those people. That's when they're still engaging services like ours. And we give a lot of insight within the market too. So, it's not just, oh, we're charging a fee because of these reasons. We're actually going to make sure that we're aligning those people to your particular service and to make sure that you are then able to retain them on the other side by doing your onboarding process, the development, letting them have a voice. So, it goes from not just the recruitment side but making sure that they're actually retaining and investing from the other side, not just investing on the recruitment side.

[00:48:03] Tracy: It definitely takes two to tango there, doesn't it? It's obviously a lot of work to be going through recruitment processes. It's a lot of time, effort, a lot of money. So, it's really nice to see everyone turn up to the party and really give their 100% there. Haven't seen anything come through on Q & A, but anything else that we wanted to share before we look to wrap up today?

[00:48:31] Nope. Beautiful.

[00:48:33] Megan, I can't thank you enough for coming today and sharing your insights, your experience. Thank you for talking to me and Tash. We really appreciate it. There's a lot to be excited about in our ECEC sector, and this is just one piece of the puzzle, So, we're very appreciative of your time today.

[00:48:48] Thank you.

[00:48:49] Megan: No thanks for having me. I really appreciate being asked and given the opportunity. More than happy to answer any further questions later down the track as well, or all my details will be shared. So, thanks guys for having me.

[00:49:03] Tash: Thanks So, much Megan. It was lovely just having this time to unpack the current trends in the sector and hopefully people have a few things that they can take away and it's gonna start some really great conversations outside of here.

[00:49:16] Megan: We hope so.

[00:49:17] Tash: Hopefully. Thanks so much, guys. I really appreciate your time. This has been wonderful.

[00:49:23] Megan: Thank you. We'll talk soon. Thanks. Bye.