Unlocking Impact: Access and Innovation in Early Learning

[00:00:00] Tracy: And welcome everyone to our second ECEC Conversations event. Our session today is called Unlocking Impact, Access and Innovation in Early Learning, and I'm joined by two very special guests, Sarah Gandolfo and Mel Hanson. My name is Tracy Kilpady. I'm the manager of education here at Xplor Education and I manage our training team. 

[00:00:22] So if you've ever heard any videos, if you've done our knowledge checks or had the pleasure of meeting one of our team face-to-face, they are the team that I work with day to day. But Sarah, we might start with you. What is your background before coming to join us today?  

[00:00:35] Sarah Louise: Yeah, thanks Tracy. So, I am an early childhood professional of 22 years. 

[00:00:40] This has been my life's work. This is all I've ever done. So, I am an early childhood teacher leader. I'm currently lecturing and doing some of my own consulting as well.  

[00:00:50] Tracy: I'm hearing a very busy woman. Am I correct?  

[00:00:52] Sarah Louise: Very, yes.  

[00:00:54] Tracy: Always. There is something about the pace in this sector that keeps everyone here. 

[00:00:58] Mel, tell us what you do.  

[00:01:00] Mel: I have lived a lot of education roles. So, I was very fortunate to be a nanny abroad for over 10 years and in the holiday settings, so Hamilton Island and ski seasons and very seasonal. And so yeah, I've had a lot of wealth in my travel and then I've come back and now in the OSHC sector. 

[00:01:23] I had my own family, and I was really ready to have a change of pace, and this has definitely been amazing. So yeah, that's where I am sitting now. 

[00:01:33] Tracy: It's interesting. Everyone has, they have a real connection to this sector and education and children in general. We hear a lot in this sector that the work matters. 

[00:01:42] It's become a very powerful mantra. What does that phrase mean to each of you, personally, professionally as well? Sarah, if you wanna kick us off. 

[00:01:52] Sarah Louise: Yeah. So, this work matters has been something that that's been going around my head for a little while now. And I think right now particularly I'm in a Victorian context and there's some added complexity. 

[00:02:01] To the space. But that work matters to me, means that I keep coming back to why I keep doing this. The fact that I haven't stepped away after two decades when we've had lots of reform, we've had lots of change, lots of things have been really complex. But I keep coming back to it and I've had to really do some soul searching to understand why, what is it about this? 

[00:02:23] Because the reality is with the skill sets we have as educators, we could go and do other work. Obviously, we've got our primary school counterparts where we could step into those spaces and do other work that also matters. But there's something about early years and there's something about this connection with families and there's something about the way we are able to have an impact on children's lives in such a real and grounded and profound way that just keeps drawing me back in. And when I'm talking with people, particularly in a consulting capacity about why this work matters, it's the same thing that people are saying. It's all about that impact. It's all about that connection. It's all about the fact that families don't exist in silos. And I don't necessarily like the term, it takes a village because I think we say that a lot without a lot of meaning, but the reality is for a lot of families, they don't have the same networks that perhaps they once did. Because the world changes and times are changing. So, we get to be part of that. We get to be part of that that environment for children. We get to be part of that support system for families. And I could just go on about it all day about why this work matters. But yeah, it's, for me, it's all about that connection and the possibilities that exist within that. 

[00:03:39] Mel: I really agree with you, Sarah. And I think that's the same. I have been in this industry for two decades plus as well. And I feel like for me it's the meaningful impact and that inclusion. Because we all come from different backgrounds, we all have a different story. Everyone's got their own little yeah, like makeup of families. And the world of our diversity is never ending these days. And the workforce situations changed. The families that used to have stay at home parents may not necessarily do that. And then it leads, to so many more kids in care and then we are providing a safe, engaging environment for yeah, these people to just thrive. And I think that is the contagious part that just keeps us showing up each day. Because it does the old saying it takes a village, it really does.  

[00:04:40] Tracy: You are both so right. I often, I think about when you're really fresh and green and. I do not have 20 years in the sector. I've got just one decade under my belt now. But in those early years, it becomes really important that Bronfenbrenner diagram when we see yourself as that smaller circle in the middle and all of those circles keep moving out, and it's really hard to move through this sector and not feel how you impact everyone else. 

[00:05:03] We talk about links, we talk about connections. Everything that we do has an impact, big or small. But a question for both of you is, when did you first impact, realise the impact that your role in early learning had? Was it a moment, a child, a family, or a conversation? I'd love to know your light bulb moment for your impact. 

[00:05:24] Mel: You go Sarah. 

[00:05:25] Sarah Louise: Okay. So, I was thinking about this question before because. I actually don't think it came until much later in my career than what might have been expected. I entered the sector when I was only 15. And, for me it was a job, and I went and did my diploma because that was just the thing you did. Did that and then got my next job as a room leader and, just worked up the ranks, just going, this is what you do in a job. And this is what you do in early childhood. You move through these positions to get to a point. And it wasn't until my second role as a director, so I was a director of a very small service first. And then when we moved and so I, I had to take a different role and I moved into this space at a very large service, a very large not-for-profit provider. And I remember going in and being completely overwhelmed by the incredible needs of the community. It was a very diverse area. But we were co-located with early intervention supports. And so, for a lot of our children, they were actually going to the early intervention site and then coming across into the long daycare and to our kindergarten. And it was through that engagement of meeting families who had experiences that I didn't have. At the time neither of my children had been diagnosed. They both have now. But I didn't have any lived experience of children with disabilities. I didn't have the lived experience of migrating to Australia. I'm first generation. But and getting exposed to all of this really shifted the way that I engaged as a service leader. And I think that, for me was a really defining moment of my career, going, this actually is so much bigger than me. This, I thought, yeah, absolutely. Polls are just popping up on the screen. I thought, absolutely. I've got a role to play here in, in obviously the operational aspect of running a service. But those relationships with the people and the way that, there were children who were disengaged, there were children that were really hard to bring into the service. They didn't wanna be there. And these are very young, two and 3-year-old children. And working closely with those families to support the children, to enter and to feel safe, to feel comfortable, and to have a really amazing experience with the team. That was the moment that I just realised there's so much more to this sector. 

[00:07:46] And I guess that was also a defining kind of period where that understanding of how we work in partnership with other professionals. 'Cause again, when you're in a very small service and you're fairly isolated, the, you're not really connected with the kinder down the road and maybe you go to the aged care facility, but not really. To have partners on site who completely challenged and changed our thinking about what inclusion in particular could look like. I think that's such a valuable experience that I hope other people get to enjoy as well. 

[00:08:21] Mel: I think for me, I have always had the fun I, that, that's me because I was always bouncing around in different settings. And also having such an opportunity to travel the world. In my younger years, I most certainly was like this career can take me anywhere. And I loved that, and I still was making an impact. 

[00:08:41] I guess now for me, that holds such care and consideration is more. I am now sharing my leadership skills with my team, and I'm now bringing the next generation of educators through. And so, for me, that's where I'm very passionate because I feel it's so important for, the old school ways to still come through. 

[00:09:05] And so I think for me, like I had such a great opportunity of this this sector being able to take us anywhere. And I have been so fortunate to have so many different experiences within the sector. As I said, nannying, soul care, then moving into like more early edge and then now into a little bit older. And the OSHC sector is sometimes forgotten around that importance of network. But we still have such a huge front of families and communities that are both working and they move outta that, amazing circle of such strength in the early years. And then it feels like, it's oh, what now? There's still only four and five when they start school. So, I think that's a really nice thing that I'm contributing to from my early years experience. Now I'm teaching it through.  

[00:10:03] Tracy: I have to agree with you, Mel. I had a very similar experience to you, Sarah. I got. I was very lucky, and I found a job in a location that was quite close to home. Whereas I'd been traveling quite a bit and I was a primary school teacher for the most of my time in the sector. 

[00:10:18] But it took moving to an area that had quite a low socioeconomic status to what I was used to. High population of what we used to call new arrivals. So new arrivals to the country, language was a barrier for them. They were fluent in so many additional languages other than English, which is what we primarily taught in. And you learn about your role in a very cookie cutter boxed environment. And you're like, this is best practice. This is what it's gonna look like, and this is what we should be aiming for. And then you see that in practice, and it doesn't happen. And suddenly you're being asked to work with psychologists and OTs and social support, and it can be really challenging, and I think for me it was like, it's not just me. I, yes, I spent a lot of time with them each and every day, but their village is on the inside as well. Their village is here in this setting, and there are so many people willing to help them and their families because nothing as we know happens in isolation. 

[00:11:14] And then it came to a point, and we talk about the world changing. COVID changed. I'm now at Xplor and it was, this impact that I can have with other educators and other leaders and other thought leaders as well, or decision makers. That's impactful too. It's a good transition  

[00:11:31] Mel: I make a change every day. That's, I take away each day I made a change. I made an impact and that's the most important thing to me each and every day. I think that's so important. I walk, I, no day's the same with children, which is so fun. And there's always surprises. But then at the end of the day, if we can walk away as educators and go, I made a difference in, in some way. 

[00:11:57] Tracy: Absolutely. And that difference as well doesn't always look the way we think it's gonna look like. I'm sure we would all love it if it was explicitly acknowledged either by the child or their family to say, you did this today. It's made me feel X, Y, and Z way. Sometimes it's them not talking to you and sometimes it's them having time and space to think ahead of time. 

[00:12:16] And three months ago they would've potentially expose themselves in a different way. And change really is important here. Change in management is a big piece that I know that we talk about in this sector. But both of you have now progressed enough in your careers that we're looking at leadership and mentoring. 

[00:12:33] How has your view of leadership in early childhood education evolved over your years here?  

[00:12:40] Sarah Louise: Yeah. So, I think similarly to, to what I said before, I think as the years have gone on and as the experiences have notched on the belt, every interaction that I've had with every educator I've ever worked with has changed my experience of leadership. 

[00:12:54] But I think some work that I've been doing recently off the back of Dr Jools Page from the UK around professional love and thinking about the application of love into the leadership space. That's been the most pivotal, I think, in, in how I now consider my role as a leader. And what once I think was quite transactional. 

[00:13:15] I am a fan of delegated leadership. I'm not sure that's really done right in most places. That kind of lead service to you can do this, but only with my permission. But when we take this really relational lens, we actually shift the power, we shift the way that people start to interact with each other. And I think that's the kind of space that I'm sitting in at the moment, and I'm hoping that I'm passing that on to the people that I'm working with as well.  

[00:13:43] Tracy: I love that. Mel, what have you noticed in your time here?  

[00:13:47] Mel: I feel like for me, I'm constantly learning as a leader. And the days that I don't learn is probably the day for me to walk away. But I love, the times have changed so much, and I love, the young ones in OSHC especially. We do have such a young cohort of educators, and those educators are usually at uni. They’re studying to be a teacher or they're studying to be a nurse, and there's that love and empathy and passion of care. I've got so many amazing educators in different industries, and they show up each and every day. But they're also teaching me, and I feel they're keeping me young and they're keeping me relevant. And I think that for me, I'm just constantly learning and they, say all these different slang words and I'm like, I don't even get it. What is, what does that mean? And I think that's just so refreshing. And then, we are working with a different age group. The kids are just becoming older. And I'm like no, let's just enjoy being kids. Like we are dealing with, my grade sixes they're bigger than Ben Hur. They're gonna conquer the world. And I'm like, oh my gosh, guys, just enjoy the moment. Enjoy being at afterschool care, hanging out with your friends. It's just such a beautiful thing. But yeah, absolutely that care relationship with all aspects. And I love that I work with the community as well as all these different educators. And I love learning from them as much as I love mentoring, so I think it's a happy medium for me. 

[00:15:27] Tracy: Oh, that's so good. 

[00:15:28] Sarah Louise: I'm so glad actually that you've brought up this concept of learning from the younger generation. Because I think we're in a really weird time where, particularly in early childhood, I'm not so sure about OSHC if it's the same thing, but we saw, there was obviously a mass exodus from the sector during the last kind of five years. And what we lost was a lot of experience. We lost a lot of the traditional approaches and the learnings that we carried through, the history of early childhood. But I love that there are these young people coming in with these amazing, unique experiences. And we've what a blessing for us and what a blessing for the sector to be able to have that in our spaces if we just slow down enough to listen and to allow that space for that to happen, which Mel, it sounds like you are.  

[00:16:18] Mel: Oh, it's a laugh a minute here. I love it. I really do. And I just think to myself, oh my gosh, am I really getting that old? But I do love the and the different ideas they come in with and how it's just forever changing. And they've got unique ideas. And because I have so many educators in so many different industries as well, they still show up here. And it's so nice to have those different connections from different avenues. And it really puts a perspective on my train of thought, and I think actually hold on a minute. And it's so nice sometimes just to stop and have that reflection time and go, actually, why can't we try that? And they're always, saying to me. Oh, can we try this, Mel? And I think to myself why not? Like, why shouldn't we be trying new things? And it could be something as simple as they're doing that in their industry and it's just fed through in a different way, which I think so refreshing. 

[00:17:15] Sarah Louise: What an amazing strength of the OSHC sector too. Because you do get those perspectives that we just wouldn't get in early childhood because we obviously, we're all early childhood trained and that's who comes through our doors. But actually you, your whole world gets to be open to that.  

[00:17:31] Mel: Yeah, and we really have a great time. Like with the older kids 'cause they have such a strong voice in our environment. Like they really have a very strong impact on our program, on our. But on the same hand, I have a 4-year-old that's in early learning long daycare and he surely has a voice as well. And I love that the service there really hears them. But yeah, we have a different approach. And in our sector, like we, we are all working with families and communities and we are all striving for the same outcome for our young people. 

[00:18:10] Tracy: You're so right. Both of you have brought up two things, which I think there's a lot of push and pull between. There's this idea that we have always worked in a certain way, and that's just the way things are done, and the avenues for change can be really limited sometimes. And then you've got this reflective practice, which is take the risk, try something new. Reflect on why it worked, why it didn't, what you change next time. That conversation that you're having with thing people like ed leads and mentors and those safe spaces to try new things and embed what works and change what doesn't. That's something that this sector does exceptionally well. 

[00:18:45] I think we really feel with young people changes in. We, they're the first to hit us. I know. Mel, we've discussed having that first round of preps that were born during COVID. That was a really challenging time, and we saw it first in the sector.  

[00:19:01] Mel: Yeah. As you can't believe it. 'Cause they were home bound for so long. And now they're in this setting of big school and these poor little darlings are just four years old. And I was like, we still struggle. 

[00:19:15] And I love January. I love it because it brings so many early ed time back for me when I worked with under-fives. And I think that always will have such a special place in my heart. But as personally, as I got older, it's very taxing on educators' bodies and. My hip alignment was never because I've constantly for 20 years nearly 20 years carried young children around. And that really is something to consider as an educator. And I guess this is why, I am here where I am now. But I do love that early start of the year when we are getting all of our four- and five-year-olds. It's like they blossom. And now I've been here for a long time at this service and now I'm seeing them come through as like prep students and then I'm going to graduation. And it breaks my heart that then they're moving on to high school and it's, I think it's just such a different blossoming part of their education and part of their journey. So yeah, it's definitely under-fives hold a special place in my heart and I'm really passionate to bring it through to the older sector now.  

[00:20:26] Tracy: Absolutely. Sarah, you wrote a wonderful blog for us which we've had up now for, I wanna say a few weeks focused on professional love. How do we make space in this sector for love and empathy and care at the leadership level without compromising boundaries or our professionalism? Question for both of you.  

[00:20:45] Sarah Louise: Yeah, it's a really good question because oftentimes what happens is we equate love with being soft and being a pushover and being a doormat. And actually, what love requires of us, and we can swap out the word love for care, we can swap it out for kindness. But I love the provocative nature of the word love. What love requires of us is actually to have very clear, firm boundaries. It requires people who are working with us to know what we're prepared to accept and what, we'll, you know what, we'll just say that's, an acceptable part of our practice and what's not. Because only then can people actually step into spaces where they have agency to make decisions. Where they've got the autonomy to make a change and to try a new idea without fear of getting something wrong. So really what love requires is a very strong leadership approach where you are very knowledgeable about yourself, your values, what you stand for. 

[00:21:43] When you start to feel that slip, when it starts to feel like people are taking advantage, you're not quite in that love space yet. This does take a lot of really deep, long, reflective work. It's not something you can just decide tomorrow, I'm gonna start leading from a place of love because you need to fully understand yourself first. And like I said before, it's really drawing on that concept of professional love that Dr Jools Page originated back in, I think it was 2017. Where she talked about reciprocal relationships, and again, I think that's a term that we throw around. But genuine reciprocity means that I'm not the centre, and you are not the centre. Actually, together we are the centre. And so, it's this decentring practice that creates a more open space for richer dialogue, more honest dialogue where trust actually can emerge rather than be forced into a group.  

[00:22:38] Tracy: That, it rings really true, in my experience, Sarah. It's, I moved into that sort of second half of my teaching career and it was very much these families that I was working with came from cultures where the teacher is the expert and they defer to school because education is such a valued experience and opportunity for them. 

[00:22:57] And it was having those conversations around, actually, no, it's both of us. I spend some time with them at school. You spend time at home with them. We are the united front. We need to decide how we're going to approach this child and their journey with both of us together with me for 12 months, but with you for the entirety of our, your time with our school community. 

[00:23:18] And it's really shifting how do we focus where the love goes. Care, empathy, big ones in your setting.  

[00:23:24] Mel: Huge. And yeah, we have a lot of our community in like, we are low social economic area and that's a very big impact within our community. And we have a lot of children in care in many different settings. 

[00:23:40] And so I think, yeah, just the love language is different to everyone, and I think that's something that Sarah, I would love to look more into what you are, commenting on. Because I think just empathy and compassion and kindness, all of those things on a daily is sometimes, this is our children's safe place. And I just, for me I know that they may not be going home to a home each day and that really plays a huge, big part of our role here. 

[00:24:12] And so we are so passionate about just filling their little cups up. 'Cause this is their safe place. So that's a huge one for me. And sometimes I think to myself, why did I land here? And then I make a difference in someone's life. And I'm like, that's why I landed here, and this is my chapter, and this is what I'm doing now. 

[00:24:35] So I think for me, most certainly it's, I love those concepts. So, Sarah, in the way that you described it, it's just so spot on.  

[00:24:46] Tracy: We've had a really lovely question come through the chat around this. What advice would the two of you give to help educators stay passionate about educating children instead of getting stuck in routines or repetitive care? 

[00:25:00] Sarah Louise: I think my approach as a leader is to actually be an amplifier of the amazing moments because I think what happens working as an educator and I still do casual work as an educator, so you get lost in the mundane. You get lost in the, we need to get these paintbrushes washed. I need to make sure everyone's got their lunch, and we've got 10,000 allergies and we've got all these things we need to do. And so, it is very easy to get lost in that. 

[00:25:27] And so my responsibility as a leader is to highlight and amplify those mundane moments. And we can find magic in those, in that moment of putting a baby down for sleep in, a new a child trying a new food for the first time. These might seem so small. But the leader's role is to say, actually that was profound. Actually, that was amazing. And the more the leader can step into that space, the easier it will be for people to feel reinvigorated and to feel like what they're doing matters and is making a difference. Yeah,  

[00:26:02] Mel: I think each moment is so enriched. I think probably us as in the older sector, we really celebrate because the kids are older, and they take the lead on so many things. And so, for us, we are a totally different concept here with loose parts and we are constantly keeping it real. And, I feel like my adrenaline's kicked in, five times a week. They, because they've built something and they're so proud of it and they've built a castle bigger than Ben Hur. And they are, coming up to me, "Mel, we just wanna show you." Like, and it's those moments of celebrating. And I feel like we, in the older sector, we do that really well. 

[00:26:44] And that's something I'm really proud of because each day is different and we don't have those real set routines. And I do know how it feels in those, okay, now we put the beds out, now we are doing sleep time, and now we're.... Where I feel like, for us we are really that's one thing that we do so well and I'm really proud of because we are constantly celebrating. And something that we did this year was put on an art show. And it was just something so empowering for the students to work on a piece of, it, it was endless. Their art was from clay work to fabric, to loose parts, gluing, hot glue gun creations. It was just endless. But it's the, it was the kids like, we wanna do this. They're so empowered with keeping it so upbeat. I think, we've always are taking their lead. So that's really fun. 

[00:27:41] I think we are very lucky that we don't have those set routines, but sometimes routines are really nice too. And sometimes I feel like what's happening today? Like especially on those vacation care days, we're here 12-hour days and that can get really taxing on educators as well. But yeah, we're always celebrating, so that's really nice.  

[00:28:01] Sarah Louise: I love that you've brought something up there though, that, potentially there, even when there is all these routines, there's things happening. There's still a possibility here to be looking forward to something. And so maybe it's about going, yeah, we will do some sort of celebration of the children's artwork over six months so that maybe it just lifts people just enough to bring them out of that, oh, here we go again it's another day. But there's this amazing opportunity to celebrate. At a fixed time. I love that.  

[00:28:32] Mel: Now we celebrate so much. Yeah. I say, 

[00:28:34] Sarah Louise: you do. I wanna come to Ipswich. 

[00:28:36] Mel: I honestly feel like we've gotta a dress up event each week, or we have, know, we're celebrating this, or we're really acknowledging this in the culture. Or, hey, we are gonna, we're purple today or we're doing like, there's just. It's a really busy thing, but we're always celebrating. And I love that about this role 'cause I love a good dress up and I love being, part of what the kids do. And so, I think that's such a high lifting educator experience. 'Cause the educators get so involved. We've got a trivia night this week and then next week's Educators Day, and then we are like dressing up for another event and we love it. So, I think always celebrate. I'm so passionate about celebrating. I, yeah, that's my, I, that's my jam. That's what I love. 

[00:29:22] Tracy: And to let you guys on the call know Mel lives by that. We had a little 15-minute gather before the timing started today, and she took us through her costume that she'd worn this morning for a hundred days of prep. And showed a very lovely rainbow colour jumper to show that off. So, it's saying is one thing, but living by it is another and that's really clear with the two of you as well.  

[00:29:43] Mel: And that's such a strong relationship that builds with the children because they see your involvement. And then the kids are like, oh my gosh, like Mel wore her pyjamas on pyjama day or crazy sock day, or. And I just think that is, that's the connection that we keep coming back with children and our families and, our community is always oh, OSHC's gonna, she's gonna go wild. They're always dressing up. But I think it's so important for that relationship building with our children.  

[00:30:15] Tracy: Absolutely. Our topic today it's in our title, we wanna talk about innovation. The two of you are doing exceptional work across very different spaces. What does innovation look like in care for the two of you? 

[00:30:29] And what examples have really stayed with you in recent years across the course of it? Innovation.  

[00:30:37] Sarah Louise: I think if you'd asked me this 10 years ago, I would've had a very different response. But right now, innovation feels hard because we are just trying to keep ourselves above water, I think at the moment. And that's, we've been that way for a little while. And I was actually talking about this with a team just last night about how innovation isn't about changing systems necessarily. There's a lot of people doing that work, but at a service level, it's not necessarily about changing systems. It's not necessarily about changing structures. It's about acknowledging that these things exist, but asking ourselves, what can we do? 

[00:31:15] And the innovation is coming from just flipping our mindset to not feel like we're drowning, to not feel like there's no hope. Because there is always hope and asking ourselves what can we do? And I think the innovation, we're gonna start to see that happening. Particularly as, federal policy changes in Victoria, we'll see some changes as well at a policy level. 

[00:31:40] And to sit with that and to say if this is the expectation and this is what's gonna happen, whether we've been consulted on that or not, what can we do outside of that? What can we do inside of that? What can we do all around that? And we're gonna see some pretty amazing stuff happening. 

[00:31:55] But if I think back over my career, I think one of the biggest innovations came from that team I was working with at that large provider where, rather than having a roster for the entire service, each room decided to have their own roster. Because the service was big enough that each team was five or six people. And they realised that actually if they looked inward and they focused on what was best for the children and the families in that space, it wasn't about having, someone from the kinder room at 7:00 AM when none of the kinder children arrived until 8:30 and then them leaving early. But actually, going if we're in this room, what time do our children arrive? What can we do about that? And creating a little system for them to exist in within the broader spectrum of the service. 

[00:32:38] So I think sometimes we use words like innovation, and we think systems change, big things, I'm gonna renovate the yard, I'm gonna, get all these resources and do this. But actually, sometimes it's very small things and the innovation. 

[00:32:51] Tracy: You're so right. It's really hard to see and make things happen in a really big way. It's all the little changes, the behaviour. We talk about culture in workplaces. It's a culture across the sector as well. We have some very time poor colleagues amongst us who are stretched to their limits and capacities, but they love doing what they do and the small meaningful things over time, are innovation. That's really beautiful. 

[00:33:18] Mel, what does it look like in OSHC for you?  

[00:33:21] Mel: It's forever changing. It's, it is all those small things, I think. And we, yeah, are just always moving with the times. And I take little snippets out of everything. But then we have the big stuff as well, and you're like, wow. Yeah. I think for me it was just, yeah, I don't know. It's so broad for me. This one it's hard to nail down, so yeah.  

[00:33:44] Tracy: Maybe a better question is, if either of you could redesign one system or process or policy to unlock more impact for us, and I think Sarah's laughing 'cause she definitely has more than one, what would it be and why?  

[00:34:00] Sarah Louise: Go on, Mel, you share yours first while I laugh to myself. 

[00:34:03] Mel: I'm gonna conquer the world. I, every day I set out to conquer the world. And I'm like, I'm gonna make a difference. And I think, yeah, I don't think there's one, because there's so many different aspects of the sector. Culture. 

[00:34:18] I, I don't even know where to go. It feels overwhelming, but I guess if I had to, I would love the outside network supports to be more readily available. Our waiting list current for speech and supports, like all of that side of things. So, our play therapies and, these, for me, I, I'm such a strong believer in early intervention and sometimes it's so hard because by the time we get them at school, it's a, we are trying to play catch up. 

[00:34:50] And so for me, I find it very frustrating that again, in our sector we have so many allied health professionals. And I'm constantly sitting in on stakeholder meetings for these individual children that need so many different elements of assistance and we just can't access it for them. For me, that's probably current. And so that's why it's at the front of my list for now. So yeah, that, that's where I would love to see. Our sector struggles so much with educators, and we need more educators in our sector. Just like the nursing sector they're struggling with medical professionals. And I'm just, I'm so passionate about trying to get these kids the assistance they need and it's just not available. 

[00:35:38] Tracy: You really, yeah. Early intervention and building up the village. The things we could do if we had a magic wand, honestly. Sarah, give us your laundry list.  

[00:35:52] Sarah Louise: So, I was thinking about. There are so many things that if it, if I had that magic wand, so many things would change overnight. And if we look at, just any social media page right now, there are lots and lots of suggestions about all the things we can do. And ratios is top of the list and, out of ratio ed leaders full-time in all services. Great, amazing higher qualification requirements, all the things. 

[00:36:14] But when I think about if I could change one thing tomorrow, it would be public perception. Because if the value of early childhood, the value of outside school hours care was actually seen and heard and understood by the general public, by the politicians that make decisions without our input, that's where we would actually start to see genuine change. Because the value of more educators in a classroom would be understood. The value of better qualifications would be understood. So I think public perception that for me I'll stop there because otherwise it could just go on and on. 

[00:36:51] Tracy: We're very aligned, you and I, Sarah and mine does come with a bit of biased with the business that I work for now. But I would love for families and society to understand and appreciate the amount of care and work that is done by educators on a daily basis instead of being perhaps rebranded as babysitting. 

[00:37:12] I see it a lot in what we do, this idea that we are paparazzi for children and we are photographing and there's lots of smiles and it's. But let me tell you about the meaningful nitty gritty things that we've done today. All the small uphill battles that we've had with this child. We saw the growth today, three, three months' worth of work on transitioning and rituals and routines. 

[00:37:33] Today, they came in, settled really well and naturalised in. That for some children that can take years. I would love for our, I would love for our peers to be seen for what they truly are, which is invaluable.  

[00:37:47] Sarah Louise: A hundred percent. A hundred percent right. The sector wouldn't run with the people that are in it and, to, to show them value. And I hope they feel that when we are, when we're talking that's a game changer.  

[00:38:00] Tracy: Oh, there's a lot of talk about this sector and we have had a mass exodus, and we talk about incremental pay increases and qualifications. How do we retain good talent? How do we retain passion in our sector? 

[00:38:16] What have you tried? What? What's worked? What's a challenge? Give us some tips.  

[00:38:21] Mel: I think, burnout is absolutely the so high in early years. I think for OSHC it's a different definitely different sort of case scenario because we are ever changing. So basically, what happens is we get these amazing teachers that are studying, but then the turnover, they, because they've at uni for years, now moved on because they've got their degree and so they're not gonna stay at OSHC. And so, then we have that constant revolving door, which is so hard to, because I want those educators to spring their, spread their wings and go conquer their amazingness. But that's our biggest challenge and I think split shifts, who wants to work six 30 to eight 30? And then what else do I do all day? And then, oh, my shift's three to five. To be honest, OSHC is not a desirable job. It is a amazing, fun job. But then I've got educators that are like, okay, so now I'm 19 and I wanna move out and I can't live on six hours wage a week. And so that's what we are constantly faced with. And we will have such an amazing educator. I've just lost an educator because she's become qualified. She's a teacher. She's not gonna stay at OSHC, is she? It's just, she was with us for three and a half years. That in OSCH is so 

[00:39:49] Tracy: That's a long time. 

[00:39:51] Mel: It, and she started with us she did a placement at the school, and she lives down the road and she was like, oh my gosh, I love this place. I love OSHC and. But I'm so proud of her because now she's a teacher and she's got a class and an amazing opportunity. But that's the constant revolving door we are faced with. So, I'm just a big believer of always celebrating the educators and keeping them as long as I possibly can. 'Cause that is the key in OSHC. We have a few, the ed leader. We have longer hours for those, but as you know of an afternoon we are looking at, 10 to 12 educators, but they're all two-hour shifts. So that's the challenge we're faced with.  

[00:40:36] Tracy: It's volume as well that you've gotta fill to meet very heavily about to be reviewed ratios and considerations and environmental factors as well.  

[00:40:46] Mel: Yeah. And then we have our inclusion supports, which is amazing. Again, it's very hard to find compassionate, educated, to be able to support these young people and what are they gonna do all day? What are they doing all day? And it's really hard. Even like traffic now, traffic's worse in life. They are like, okay, I'm not driving 45 minutes for a two-hour shift. So, you've gotta then find the network in the small, 

[00:41:19] Tracy: So, it's close by.  

[00:41:21] Mel: Yeah, which is really tough as well.  

[00:41:25] Sarah Louise: I can't help but think I would really enjoy a nice daytime nap every day. That would be my life. Work for hours, have a nap wherever. I the concept of retention is actually part of my PhD. So, in six years I'll give you the answer to what this looks like. Of the things that I'm, one of the things I'm really focusing in on is the impact of relationships on retention. 

[00:41:45] And when I think to services that I've worked in where perhaps my relationship with the team, because obviously I'm learning along the way and trying different leadership things and whatever. Where the relationship probably wasn't that strong, I can look back now and go, actually, yeah, losing an educator, every two weeks, every three weeks, and having to go through that process of recruitment and do all of that: problematic. When I started to really prioritise people rather than budgets, systems, roster, like all of these things when I went actually, what do the people need? 

[00:42:20] And actually, this educator can't work her late on a Tuesday. So why am I making her do too lates on the, two Tuesday lates every month, knowing damn well she's not gonna come, knowing that's gonna impact our relationship and knowing that she's eventually gonna leave for somewhere that won't give her those lates on a Tuesday. 

[00:42:36] So when I started shifting that mindset and going, people first. All the other stuff can, we can focus on that later. That's where I started to see a difference. And I went from, when I started at my last big service, we lost 50% of the staff when I arrived. And there were some systems things and there was some challenges and that's okay, people need to move on. But from that six-month point where I went it's all about the people and it's all about how I relate to these people, we actually stopped I think one educator left because she had a family emergency overseas. Off she went and then she came back and reapplied.  

[00:43:12] Tracy: That's very interesting 

[00:43:12] Sarah Louise: For her job again. And that was a very short period of time, but it was just that mindset of going, everything else will be sorted. I've still got the same amount of team members. The budget's gonna be exactly the same, maybe that person can just do an early on a Tuesday for goodness sake, and suddenly everything shifts.  

[00:43:32] Mel: I am working around 30 educators, uni timetables, and they change every semester. I think, they dictate to me, I feel like they're doing the roster because they're like, Hey Mel, and so many are like, oh Mel my semester's changed. I've got, and now I can only work mornings. And it's that. I think being in the moment of just flexibility and just constantly being on your toes of it's okay, we've got this, no problem. And my very strong beliefs are for my families all my educators that have families I should say, kids come first. It's okay. And we are such a big team and we, all of, they all go out on placement and it's like they need three-week time block to go do placement. And it's but you know what? We all jump in, we go, you do, I'll do extra shifts because in two months' time I'm going on placement. And so, we're so flexible and I think that's something that we've really adapted well to. Everyone's outside lives. And there's so many people in OSHC that need two jobs. So, we will have, they'll have a morning job, or they'll have a night job and they're working at, hospitality outlets. So they'll go, Mel, we can only work these hours. 

[00:44:44] And I think you are so right, Sarah, in saying putting their needs first because it then works. And it works successfully to keep them long term, and those people have the relationships with our kids and with our community. And it's so nice to still see their face coming in. I've got some staff that, just come one, one shift a week, but it's okay. Because come vacation care, they've got all holidays and then we have them all holidays. So, there's so many beautiful aspects of that.  

[00:45:18] Sarah Louise: And I think it's important as well to acknowledge that it's not easy. Like having someone come in and go, oh my God, my, my semester's changed and now I can't do this. It's okay to feel that fight or flight and to go, internally I'm spiralling, but externally I'll say, of course, of course I'll help you out with that. Of course, it's not a problem. As leaders, it's okay to feel that way. And it, and you will feel that way. It's what you do next. It's how you take that moment to pause, reflect, recentre, and come back with a solution. 

[00:45:53] Tracy: So much of the work that is done in this sector is reflective practice, both on what we do with children, with each other, within ourselves. We've spent a lot of time talking about this sector. What's gotten us here? What keeps us here? What hope do we have for early childhood education and care? What, what do we wish for ourselves in our sector, our families, and our children? 

[00:46:15] What gives us hope?  

[00:46:19] Sarah Louise: Hope gives me hope. Can I say that? 

[00:46:21] Tracy: You can. 

[00:46:22] Sarah Louise: Just generally being hopeful, I think. I think where it's hard now. But I've said this for a long time, we're gonna get through this 'cause we have. This isn't the only hard time that we've been through as a sector. But if, you haven't had two years of two decades of experience, you don't know that. And that's okay. But we will get through it. And I think if we can continue to centre children, centre each other, centre, the work that we do we will get through this and there is a future filled with hope.  

[00:46:52] Mel: So much, and I think it's bright. Like I believe change is so refreshing and I hope that all of these knock on effects give us so much more for the future. Because we are a constant changing society. And while we are changing and I believe that change is so healthy. And I think that I can only hope that we, continue to grow and I grow each and every day. And I think while I keep showing up that's all that matters and I just, that's my message for educators. Like one we show up each and every day. And I think that's enough hope for us.  

[00:47:36] Tracy: You're both so right. There's a comment in the chat that Hope. Hope is hope. It really is. There's, a long time in this sector tells us that we work in education. We are the first lot of people who want to learn, who wanna grow, who wanna change. And yes, it's uncomfortable. But we will make it work because everyone shares the vision. 

[00:47:57] On this call, we're across states, we're across care types. The other people in the room with us, our 20 colleagues, all of us here will leave today I would really hope and have that, that hope in them for what's in the future for us. 

[00:48:10] I'm gonna open up our chat. If there's anything else you'd love to ask our audience, anything you want clarification on or for us to go into a little deeper, please put your hand up, pop it in the chat. Our lovely colleague, Tash may have some more polls for us as well, but this is your time now. Thank you for spending 50 ish minutes with us. We know this is a time poor sector, so thank you for prioritising us today. If you or your colleagues cannot, this recording will be made available as well. And Sarah and Mel also have some wonderful resources that they've shared on some of our marketing pages as well, which is very lovely. 

[00:48:45] So thank you Mel and Sarah, thank you for dedicating your time today and your knowledge and expertise. We really appreciate it. It's so grounding to hear from people with their boots on the ground, so thank you.  

[00:48:57] Mel: And I think it's so important for us just to pause and make this a priority. Networking, and that in itself it's so healthy in our sector because we do have each other's back. And it's so nice, I know in my community I can ring other colleagues and be like, hey, so I've done this or this has happened. And I think for us as educators to be part of these gatherings is so important for our mental health, for our all different things. And it again, makes us stop and reflect and I think that's the constant thing this sector does so well. 

[00:49:36] Tracy: No, absolutely. We've had a question come in from chats. How do you drive passion and excitement with your teams? We've talked a lot about support and lifting people up. How do we keep them at that level, that passion and excitement that we have? How do we pass it on?  

[00:49:50] Sarah Louise: My first thought is you need to be passionate and excited as the leader. And even if you're not in a positional leadership role, everyone's a leader. And if you are passionate, you are excited, you enjoy coming to work, it rubs off. It's palatable where I work on days where, you know, someone's feeling a bit low, you can feel the vibe in the space, but as soon as we remind ourselves why we're there and let's just go do some painting, forget the plan we had, maybe let's make some pancakes, let's do something different instead and shake it up a bit, that's where you're gonna see that in other people and that will become contagious.  

[00:50:27] Mel: Absolutely. I am like, my personality is over the top and I know that. And so yeah, people always I find that the way that I'm, I show passion is I get involved. So, I will go out and I will be ridiculous in the environment. And I will climb the cubbies, and I want to try and go down the slides and I'm, I love climbing trees with the kids. And they're like, Mel, you can't do that. And I think that's really that mentoring and that's, role modelling and it's okay to also be in the moment. I think that's for me because I don't want to be the person at the top. 

[00:51:06] I wanna be part of the team. And I think when you are being part of the team, and I'm, vacation care. And I'm like, you, yep, I'm cleaning the toilets. It's totally fine. I've got this team. Or I'll take it, and they're like, no, Mel you. And I'm like, no I am ju I need all of you as much as I would rather go do that to give you, some time with the kids or whatever it be. But I think that being in the moment.  

[00:51:33] Tracy: Leading from the pack, Mel. It's we're all in this together. And I don't mean it to sound like a cliche, but we are. Like, again, cross geographies, cross care types. When one child has a great experience, we can all celebrate. 

[00:51:52] Let me double check on our chat. Beautiful. That is, it for us today. Another big thank you for everyone, for giving their time, their attention and their love, their professional love, to the women that we have on this call to us at Xplor. Thank you so much. We appreciate you. We see you. Thank you.